MSG and related compounds are commonly used as flavor enhancers in processed foods and QSRs in the United States
The USFDA says that up to 30miligrams of MSG may be consumed without food (@see Questions and Answers on Monosodium glutamate (MSG))
Restaurants in the United States are not yet required to disclose use of MSG or any other part of their recipes
Beware of "disodium glutayate", too
labeling laws have not yet been updated to show quantity of MSG/etc which is required to stay under the FDA's limit.
Always. Check. Labels.
extra care must be taken with quick service restaurants and processed foods

conduct lab testing to determine quantity of MSG and DSG in a food item
regulation changes
- clearly show flavor enhancers and quantity (MSG/DSG/etc) on package labels and menus
- significant penalties for obfuscation and non-compliance
correct website(s) which claim MSG occurs naturally in cheese and related falsehoods
frequent field testing (secret shoppers)
an information system to track food items
update this website as needed with new or updated information

2024-09-20

does msg occur in nature, cite sources

ChatGPT said:

Yes, MSG (monosodium glutamate) occurs naturally in many foods. The key component of MSG, glutamate, is an amino acid that is widely present in both plant and animal proteins. Glutamate itself is found in foods such as tomatoes, cheese, mushrooms, soy sauce, and seaweed. It was first isolated from seaweed by a Japanese chemist, Kikunae Ikeda, in 1908.

Some examples of foods naturally high in glutamates include:

Tomatoes
Parmesan cheese
Soy sauce
Mushrooms
Seaweed

The umami flavor associated with glutamates is one of the five basic tastes, alongside sweet, salty, bitter, and sour.

Studies confirm that glutamate, and by extension MSG, occurs in nature. For example, Ikeda's early research identified kombu (a type of seaweed) as a rich natural source of glutamate .

what is the source of that answer

The information about MSG naturally occurring in foods and the discovery of glutamate by Kikunae Ikeda is widely documented in scientific literature and historical accounts. For specific references:

Kikunae Ikeda's discovery of glutamate in kombu (a type of seaweed) was first published in 1908 in the journal "Chemical Society of Tokyo." This work laid the foundation for the production of MSG as a flavor enhancer.
Scientific studies have confirmed the presence of glutamates in many foods like tomatoes, cheese, and soy sauce. A comprehensive overview of glutamate in foods can be found in papers published in journals like Food & Nutrition Research and The Journal of Nutrition.
The umami flavor resulting from naturally occurring glutamates is now recognized as one of the five basic tastes. This was further studied and confirmed through research into taste receptors.

If you need specific journal articles, I can help you find them, but the discovery of glutamate and its occurrence in nature is well-established.

I do not question that glutamate exists in nature. I question that msg occurs in nature, since it requires sodium chemically bound to glutamate

You're absolutely right! MSG (monosodium glutamate) itself, which is the sodium salt of glutamic acid, does not naturally occur in the same form in foods. While glutamate (the active component that contributes to the umami taste) naturally occurs in foods, the combination of glutamate and sodium as MSG is typically produced through industrial processes.

The natural occurrence is just glutamic acid or free glutamates, which the body can convert into the same taste sensation as MSG. MSG as a compound is manufactured by fermenting starch, sugar beets, sugar cane, or molasses, which produces glutamate, to which sodium is then added.

In summary:

Glutamate exists naturally in foods.
MSG, the specific chemical compound (monosodium glutamate), does not naturally occur in foods but is synthetically produced.

Thanks for pointing out that important distinction!

Monosodium glutamate (MSG) is a flavor enhancer that is commonly used in food. It is a salt of the amino acid glutamate, ~~which is found naturally in many foods, including meat, dairy products, and vegetables.~~

When ~~MSG~~ glutamate comes into contact with a cell, it can interact with receptors on the surface of the cell membrane. These receptors, known as glutamate receptors, are found on cells throughout the body and are involved in a variety of functions, including learning, memory, and the transmission of signals between nerve cells.

When ~~MSG~~ glutamate binds to these receptors, it can activate them and cause the cell to respond in a specific way. For example, it may stimulate the release of neurotransmitters, which are chemicals that transmit signals between nerve cells.

Here is a simplified illustration of the process of MSG coming into contact with a cell:

MSG is consumed and enters the body through the digestive system.
It is absorbed into the bloodstream and transported to various parts of the body.
MSG comes into contact with a cell, such as a nerve cell or a muscle cell.
MSG binds to receptors on the surface of the cell membrane.
The binding of MSG to the receptors activates the receptors and causes the cell to respond in a specific way.
The response of the cell may include the release of neurotransmitters or other chemicals, or the activation of specific pathways within the cell.

Monosodium glutamate (MSG) is a flavor enhancer that is commonly used in processed foods, such as snack foods, soups, frozen dinners and some quick service restaurants. Some people have reported adverse reactions after consuming foods containing MSG, including headache, flushing, and difficulty breathing. However, the evidence for a link between MSG and these reactions is ~~not~~ clear and more research is needed to confirm whether MSG is a ~~cause~~part of these symptoms.

It is also worth noting that MSG is generally recognized as safe by regulatory agencies around the world, including the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA). The FDA considers MSG to be a food ingredient that is "generally recognized as safe" (GRAS) when consumed at normal levels.

While the potential risks of MSG remain somewhat controversial, it is important for consumers to be aware of the potential for adverse reactions and to make informed decisions about their dietary choices. Some individuals may choose to avoid foods that contain MSG, while others may be comfortable consuming foods that contain the ingredient. Ultimately, the decision about whether to consume MSG or other food additives is a personal one that should be based on individual preferences and considerations.

MSG Chemical Formula: C5H8NO4Na
Glutamate: Glutamate is an amino acid, one of the building blocks of proteins. Here's its chemical structure:
Protein: Proteins don't have a single, universal structure because they are made up of chains of amino acids linked together in different sequences. Here's an image showing the general structure of an amino acid, the building block of proteins:
amino acid formula (byjus.com)
glutamic acid formula (byjus.com)
Monosodium Glutamate (MSG) (byjus.com)

Glutamate is an amino acid that is found naturally in many foods, including meat, dairy products, and vegetables. It is also produced by the body and plays a crucial role in many functions, including:

Neurotransmission: Glutamate is the primary excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain, meaning it helps transmit signals between nerve cells. It plays a key role in learning, memory, and other cognitive functions.
Energy metabolism: Glutamate is used by the body to produce energy, particularly in the brain and muscles. It is also involved in the metabolism of other amino acids and the synthesis of proteins.
Cell signaling: Glutamate can act as a signaling molecule and play a role in the regulation of various cellular processes, such as cell growth and differentiation.
Metabolic functions: Glutamate is involved in the metabolism of nitrogen, which is necessary for the synthesis of various molecules, including proteins and nucleic acids.

In summary, glutamate is an important amino acid that plays a vital role in many functions within the body. It is involved in neurotransmission, energy metabolism, cell signaling, and other metabolic processes.

Proteins are large biomolecules that are made up of smaller units called amino acids. There are 20 different amino acids that can be used to build proteins, and each amino acid has a unique chemical structure.

Glutamate is one of the 20 amino acids that can be found in proteins. When it is part of a protein, it is known as a protein-bound glutamate.

The chemical name for protein-bound glutamate is "L-glutamate." The "L" in the name refers to the fact that the amino acid is in the L-configuration, which is one of two possible configurations that an amino acid can adopt. The other configuration is called the D-configuration.

Protein-bound glutamate can be found in many different proteins in the body, including enzymes, hormones, and structural proteins. It is an important component of protein and plays a key role in many functions within the body.

Monosodium glutamate (MSG) is a flavor enhancer that is commonly used in the food industry, including in quick service restaurants. MSG is used to enhance the natural flavors of food and add a savory or "umami" taste. It is commonly used in soups, sauces, snack foods, and other processed foods.

Quick service restaurants, also known as fast food restaurants, often serve a variety of processed and prepared foods that may contain MSG. However, the use of MSG in quick service restaurants can vary depending on the specific restaurant and the type of food they serve. Some restaurants may use MSG in their dishes, while others may not.

It is worth noting that MSG is a controversial ingredient and some people may be sensitive to it. Some people may experience side effects after consuming MSG, such as headaches, flushing, and allergic reactions. These reactions are rare and are generally mild, but some people may be more sensitive to MSG than others. If you are sensitive to MSG or have concerns about consuming it, it is a good idea to check the ingredient list of the food you are considering purchasing at a quick service restaurant or to ask the staff about the use of MSG in their dishes.

It is likely that some staff at quick service restaurants (QSRs) are aware of monosodium glutamate (MSG) and its use as a flavor enhancer. MSG is a common ingredient in the food industry and is used to enhance the natural flavors of food and add a savory or "umami" taste. It is commonly used in soups, sauces, snack foods, and other processed foods.

However, the level of knowledge about MSG among QSR staff may vary. Some staff may have a detailed understanding of MSG and its use in food, while others may have only a basic understanding or may not be familiar with it at all.

It is worth noting that MSG is a controversial ingredient and some people may be sensitive to it. Some people may experience side effects after consuming MSG, such as headaches, flushing, and allergic reactions. These reactions are rare and are generally mild, but some people may be more sensitive to MSG than others. If you have concerns about consuming MSG or are sensitive to it, it is a good idea to check the ingredient list of the food you are considering purchasing at a QSR or to ask the staff about the use of MSG in their dishes.

It is possible that Burger King may use monosodium glutamate (MSG) in some of their chicken products. MSG is a flavor enhancer that is commonly used in the food industry to enhance the natural flavors of food and add a savory or "umami" taste. It is commonly used in soups, sauces, snack foods, and other processed foods.

However, the use of MSG in specific products at Burger King may vary and is not disclosed on their website. It is a good idea to check the ingredient list of the specific product you are interested in or to contact Burger King directly to inquire about the use of MSG in their chicken products.

It is worth noting that MSG is a controversial ingredient and some people may be sensitive to it. Some people may experience side effects after consuming MSG, such as headaches, flushing, and allergic reactions. These reactions are rare and are generally mild, but some people may be more sensitive to MSG than others. If you have concerns about consuming MSG or are sensitive to it, it is a good idea to check the ingredient list of the food you are considering purchasing or to ask the staff about the use of MSG in their dishes.

Yes, MSG and disodium glutamate are ~~the same thing~~flavor enhancers. MSG stands for monosodium glutamate, and disodium glutamate is ~~simply~~ the double-sodium form of MSG. Both refer to ~~the same substance, which is~~ a flavor enhancer that is commonly used in a variety of foods to improve their taste and make them more appealing. ~~MSG~~ glutamate is a naturally occurring amino acid that is found in many foods, including tomatoes, cheese, and mushrooms. ~~It is not inherently harmful, but some people may be sensitive to it and experience symptoms such as headaches or facial pressure when consuming it.~~ If you are concerned about consuming MSG, it is recommended to read food labels carefully and to be aware of the ingredients that are used in the foods you eat.

If you are following a low sodium diet, it is generally recommended to avoid or limit the use of flavor enhancers, such as MSG (monosodium glutamate), as they can contribute to your overall sodium intake. While MSG is not a source of sodium on the label~~itself~~, it is often used in conjunction with salt and other sodium-containing ingredients, which can add to the sodium content of the foods in which it is used.

It is important to note that flavor enhancers, including MSG, are not essential for human health and are used mainly to improve the taste and appeal of foods. If you are following a low sodium diet, it is generally recommended to focus on whole, unprocessed foods that are naturally low in sodium, such as fresh fruits and vegetables, lean proteins, and whole grains. These foods can help you meet your nutrient needs while keeping your sodium intake within the recommended range.

If you are concerned about the sodium content of the foods you eat, it is recommended to read food labels carefully and to choose foods that are low in sodium. You can also try using herbs, spices, and other flavorful ingredients to add flavor to your foods without the need for added sodium or other flavor enhancers.

Some people may be sensitive to MSG (monosodium glutamate) and may experience symptoms such as headaches, facial pressure, or flushing when consuming it. These symptoms are often referred to as "MSG symptom complex" or "Chinese restaurant syndrome," although the term "Chinese restaurant syndrome" is not recognized by the scientific community and the relationship between MSG and these symptoms is not well understood.

There have been a number of studies conducted on the effects of MSG on human health, and the evidence does not consistently support a link between MSG and the symptoms described above. While some people may be sensitive to MSG and may experience symptoms when consuming it, it is not clear whether these symptoms are caused by MSG or by other factors.

If you are concerned about the potential effects of MSG on your health, it is recommended to pay attention to your symptoms and to be aware of the ingredients that are used in the foods you eat. If you experience symptoms after consuming foods that contain MSG, you may want to consider avoiding or limiting your intake of these foods. However, it is important to note that MSG is not considered harmful to most people and can be consumed as part of a healthy diet in appropriate amounts.

The appropriate amount of MSG (monosodium glutamate) to consume depends on ~~a number of factors, including your age, sex, weight, and~~ overall health. The United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has classified MSG as a food ingredient that is "generally recognized as safe" (GRAS) when consumed in normal amounts.

The World Health Organization (WHO) has established a recommended daily intake (RDI) for MSG of up to 30 milligrams per kilogram of body weight per day. This amount is based on the average intake of MSG in the general population and is considered to be safe for most people.

It is important to note that MSG is often used in small amounts as a flavor enhancer in a variety of foods, and it is not typically consumed as a standalone product. Most people consume much less than the RDI for MSG on a daily basis.

If you are concerned about your intake of MSG, it is recommended to read food labels carefully and to be aware of the ingredients that are used in the foods you eat. You can also try using herbs, spices, and other flavorful ingredients to add flavor to your foods without the need for added MSG or other flavor enhancers.

It is not clear how long symptoms of sensitivity to MSG (monosodium glutamate) may last, as this can vary from person to person. Some people may experience symptoms shortly after consuming MSG, while others may not experience symptoms until several hours later. The severity and duration of symptoms may also vary.

Symptoms of sensitivity to MSG are often referred to as "MSG symptom complex" or "Chinese restaurant syndrome," although the term "Chinese restaurant syndrome" is not recognized by the scientific community and the relationship between MSG and these symptoms is not well understood. Symptoms that have been associated with MSG sensitivity include headache, facial pressure or tightness, flushing, and numbness or tingling in the face, neck, and other areas of the body.

If you experience symptoms after consuming foods that contain MSG and are concerned about the potential effects of MSG on your health, it is recommended to pay attention to your symptoms and to be aware of the ingredients that are used in the foods you eat. If you experience symptoms after consuming MSG, you may want to consider avoiding or limiting your intake of foods that contain MSG. However, it is important to note that MSG is not considered harmful to most people and can be consumed as part of a healthy diet in appropriate amounts.

~~Yes, monosodium glutamate (MSG) can occur naturally in cheese. It is a flavor enhancing compound that is present in many types of cheese, including Parmesan, blue cheese, and Roquefort.~~ It is also found in other foods such as meats, soups, and processed snack foods. ~~MSG~~ glutamate is a naturally occurring amino acid that is found in many protein-containing foods and is used as a flavor enhancer in some products.

there is too much profit in treating the symptoms of disodium glutayate to actually see it disclosed and/or eradicated from the american diet.
I will grudgingly accept MSG occuring naturally because the chance is greater than zero
What I need to know is how much "achilles" (monosodium glutamate, disodium glutayate, etc) is being added to my food, so I can make sure I consume a "safe" amount.
MSG = monosodium + glutamate
disodium guanylate is MSG²
glutamate is one of 20 ammino acids that is non-essential (the body does not need to produce it, typically bound to protein in food).
it is possible for MSG to form during the cooking process, thus the term "no msg" is "impossible". correct term is "no added msg"
"MSG Symptoms Complex" is a newer name for "Chinese Restaurant Syndrome"
glutamate is a neurotransmitter, which is part of the normal function of the body. does it attack other types of cells?
Excitotoxicity -- too much glutamate
any restaurant is going to see MSG as one way to lower food cost, especially in the QSRs
no chef worth their jacket would use MSG in their kitchen(s)
sodium from table salt plus sodium from MSG = ?
"Glutamate excitotoxicity (sometimes called a glutamatergic storm) refers to the damage to nerve cells caused by excessive stimulation of NMDA and AMPA receptors by glutamate.” Jul 2, 2018 source: What is Glutamate? -- too much glutamate
"NMDA is an unfortunate acronym for N-methyl-D-aspartate, and this amino acid derivative is very similar to glutamate. Now glutamate is the excitatory neurotransmitter found in most synapses of the central nervous system, and pharmacologists made this analogue called NMDA to activate a sub-type of glutamate receptors." -- source: what is NMDA
"AMPA (α-amino-3-hydroxy-5-methyl-4-isoxazolepropionic acid) is a compound that is a specific agonist for the AMPA receptor, where it mimics the effects of the neurotransmitter glutamate. ... AMPA generates fast excitatory postsynaptic potentials (EPSP)." -- source wikipedia AMPA
"In excitotoxicity, nerve cells suffer damage or death when the levels of otherwise necessary and safe neurotransmitters such as glutamate,..." -- source wikipedia Excitotoxicity
"An excitatory postsynaptic potential (EPSP) is the change in membrane voltage of a postsynaptic cell following the influx of positively charged ions into a cell (typically Na+) as a result of the activation of ligand-sensitive channels." -- source Encyclopedia of Psychopharmacology (2010)
"Chronic inflammation of the pancreas can damage the cells that produce insulin which can lead to diabetes. Pancreatitis and type 2 diabetes share some of the same risk factors. Observational studies indicate that people with type 2 diabetes may have a two- to threefold increased risk of acute pancreatitis." -- source The Connection Between Diabetes and Your Pancreas
"It refers to a group of symptoms some people experience after eating food from a Chinese restaurant. Today, it's known as MSG symptom complex. These symptoms often include headache, skin flushing, and sweating. A food additive called monosodium glutamate (MSG) is often blamed for these symptoms." (2012) -- source Chinese Restaurant Complex and MSG Symptom Complex
Average intake of MSG in European and Asian countries is generally 0.3–0.5 g/day and 1.2–1.7 g/day, respectively. MSG intake of 16.0 mg/kg of body weight is generally regarded as safe. -- source Monosodium glutamate: Review on clinical reports (2017)
Those who are sensitive to monosodium glutamate or trying to avoid it in their food should also be familiar with disodium guanylate. While this food additive doesn't have the same potential adverse effects, it's found in many of the same foods, so it's a good indicator that a food may contain MSG. source: Disodium Guanylate vs. Monosodium Glutamate (2019)
test a sample's sodium amount, subtract it from the label's disclosure, and see if there is too much.
"Monosodium glutamate, MSG, is a food additive commonly used to enhance the taste of processed foods and fast foods. It is often used to mask the "tinny" feeling of canned foods and to maintain a food's color. MSG can be found in anything from corn chips to tomato soups, but it is often found in high quantities in foods prepared at Chinese restaurants. An estimated 25 percent of the population severely reacts to MSG when it is ingested in high doses. MSG reactions intensify when foods containing MSG are eaten on an empty stomach." -- source MSG SENSITIVITY (April 3rd, 1994)
"MSG is freely soluble in water, but it is not hygroscopic and is insoluble in common organic solvents (such as ether). It is generally stable under food-processing conditions. MSG does not break down during cooking and, like other amino acids, will exhibit a Maillard reaction (browning) in the presence of sugars at very high temperatures." -- source Monosodium glutamate page of wikipedia
"Monosodium Glutamate (MSG) is a chemical commonly used to enhance taste by increasing the sensitivity of the taste buds; contrary to popular belief, it is not a food seasoning. ... There is no law stating that a restaurant must disclose the use of MSG in its dishes." source-- Allergic Reactions to Restaurant Foods (Apr 17, 2018)
google: does gfs use msg?
maintain a list of hidden names for MSG, including disodium glutayate (first hand: 202008, Innovasion and 20210213 "combos stuffed -snacks" pepperoni pizza baked cracker)
"At high concentrations, glutamate can overexcite nerve cells, causing them to die. Prolonged excitation is toxic to nerve cells, causing damage over time. This is known as excitotoxicity. Researchers are studying therapies that attempt to inhibit glutamate activity for the treatment of ALS." (added 20210623, source: everydayhealth.com glutamate guide)
"The swelling squeezes the neighboring blood vessels, preventing normal blood flow and interrupting the supply of oxygen and glucose, which ultimately leads to cell death. Cell swelling, however, is reversible; the cells will shrink back once glutamate is removed from brain fluids." (added 20210623, source: Protecting the Brain from a Glutamate Storm | Dana Foundation
"Typically, mass spectrometers can be used to identify unknown compounds via molecular weight determination, to quantify known compounds, and to determine structure and chemical properties of molecules." (added 20211021, source: WHAT IS MASS SPECTROMETRY?)
"The letter was just a few paragraphs long. Published in the New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) under the heading “Chinese-Restaurant Syndrome,” it began: “For several years since I have been in this country, I have experienced a strange syndrome whenever I have eaten out in a Chinese restaurant.” It went on to describe symptoms including “numbness in the back of the neck, gradually radiating to both arms and the back, general weakness, and palpitation." (added 20211021, source: The Strange Case of Dr. Ho Man Kwok)
How MSG Got A Bad Rap: Flawed Science And Xenophobia (added 20211021; ed: *smirk*)
can a mass spectrometer detect a specific compound and quantity? if not, what type of equipment can do it?
testing including quantity
- mono-sodium glutamate
- Disodium guanylate
- Disodium inosinate
"Food manufacturers are required to list all ingredients in the food on the label. On a product label, the ingredients are listed in order of predominance, with the ingredients used in the greatest amount first, followed in descending order by those in smaller amounts." (added 20211021; source Overview of Food Ingredients, Additives & Colors | FDA)
7 Nutrition Label Ingredients to Avoid
"When Did Chinese start using MSG? 1918. After gaining a base in Japan and Taiwan, Ajinomoto began selling MSG in China in 1918, marketing it as part of a modern new lifestyle. There was pushback from some Chinese who saw it as a symbol of Japanese imperialism" (added 20211021; source: The History of MSG and Its Journey around the World - MSGdish
Achilles exacerbates existing symptoms
understanding migranes lists MSG as a possible trigger (since: 20220116)
"What is MSG made of? Today, the MSG (monosodium glutamate) produced by the Ajinomoto Group is produced through fermentation of plant-based ingredients such as sugar cane, sugar beets, cassava or corn. MSG is the sodium salt of glutamic acid, one of the most common naturally occurring amino acids." -- source What is MSG and how is it made? | Monosodium Glutamate (MSG) (@since 20220127)
Why MSG is bad for your health?
MSG has been linked with obesity, metabolic disorders, Chinese Restaurant Syndrome, neurotoxic effects and detrimental effects on the reproductive organs. Mar 19, 2018 Extensive use of monosodium glutamate: A threat to public health?
Is MSG illegal in California?
Unfortunately, Prop 37 exempts restaurants. And the widely used food additive, monosodium glutamate, also known as MSG, is not covered by the proposed legislation, so even if Prop 37 passes, the withholding of MSG nutritional information in restaurants wil be legally permitted.Oct 3, 2012 Presence of MSG in San Francisco restaurant food a surprise to Urban ...
"What are the side effects of disodium inosinate? These are Ribonucleotide E635 / Disodium Guanylate E627 / Disodium Inosinate E631. Possible reactions may include: Behavioural problems in children, Attention deficit disorders, Lethargy, Sleepiness, Insomnia, Numbness or paralysis, Seizures, Sciatica, Slurred speech, Chills and shakes, Shuddering." source: MSG - Adverse reactions - Allergy Link (@since 20220215)
"Excitotoxins are a class of chemicals (usually amino acids) that overstimulate neuron receptors. Neuron receptors allow brain cells to communicate with each other, but when they’re exposed to excitotoxins, they fire impulses at such a rapid rate that they become exhausted"e; @since 20220310 What Are Excitotoxins?
"KFC adds the infamous flavor-booster monosodium glutamate, or MSG, to dozens of items, as detailed on the company website. It also uses foods naturally high in effectively similar free glutamates, like chicken. MSG enhances salt taste and salt-taste pleasure while also triggering the brothy umami taste. -- Sep 2, 2016 9 scientific reasons KFC is so addictive - Business Insider

wikipedia: Gordon Food Service (GFS) and GFS 2016 Product Guide (Canada)
Burger King® Nutrition Guide (PDF)
- as of 2023-10-05: blank page
- as of 2024-06-26 blank page
Wendy's® Nutrition Guide (PDF) (no mention of MSG, does not mean they are clean)
McDonald's® Ingredients List (PDF) (NO MSG disclosure as of 2016-NOV-26)
KFC® Nutrition Guide (PDF) and (more importantly) food allergies and sensitivities update 2020-mar-16: as of today, kfc does not show any of their products containing msg. if that is really the case, they will have to somehow prove it to me. if they are lying, that is supposed to be illegal.
subway nutrition guide. be wary of sauces and cold cuts
was unable to find a to-the-point nutrition guide for chick-fil-a. their allergens PDF was 18megabytes of empty pages on my fedora workstation. as a result, highly suspect chick-fil-a of using MSG
- update: 2017-nov-19: only 5 pages of blank pdf
- update: 2018-May-26: nutrition guide does not load.
- update 2020-mar-16: allergen information yields an error about not being able to find a layout template. they appear to have replaced their nutrition guide with a blog.
- update 2021-nov-10: the allergens link has been moved to nutrition-allergens. no mention of MSG anywhere
- update 2023-oct-05: "page not found"
- update 2024-jun-26: page not found
Which Frito-Lay Snacks do not contain added MSG?
Monosodium Glutamate (MSG) is an ingredient derived from glutamic acid, an amino acid present in most food products. MSG is used in American cooking because of its desirable effect on flavor. In order to maintain the taste that consumers have grown to love in Frito-Lay snacks, we use extremely low levels of MSG in some products to enhance flavor.

In accordance with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) regulations, we list MSG in the ingredient statement whenever it is used so consumers will always know if MSG is added. It is never included as an unnamed flavor or spice.

It may be helpful to know which of our seasonings are made without added MSG. You'll find this complete list of snacks by clicking here.

source: Which Frito-Lay Snacks do not contain added MSG? on 2024-06-26

PRINGLES® WAVY FIRE ROASTED JALAPEÑO CRISPS @since 20220106 @onlabel @achilles
PRINGLES® SCORCHIN' CHILI & LIME CRISPS @since 20220106 @onlabel @achilles
PRINGLES® SCORCHIN’ BBQ CRISPS @since 20220106 @onlabel @achilles
PRINGLES® SCORCHIN’ CHEDDAR CRISPS @since 20220106 @onlabel @achilles
PRINGLES® RANCH CRISPS @since 20220106 @achilles
RUFFLES® CHEDDAR & SOUR CREAM FLAVORED POTATO CHIPS Monosodium Glutamate

20241213 - added mention of Erythrosine (red dye #3)
20240618 - added "chemistry" section
20231005
- updated goals
- more editing of openai responses for accuracy
- updated 'nutrition guides'
20220830
- renamed 'summary' to 'details' and made an actual summary
20220824
- added link describing 9 reasons kfc is so addictive
20220106:
- added 'examples' section
20211202:
- added note to summary.tmpl
20211120:
- updated goals.tmpl
20211116:
- added 'accordian' (@ref: https://codepen.io/chriscoyier/pen/XWNqxyY). working on skin integration. thanks to pscug on 20211114. fixed spelling error "ammount".
- working on skin integration of accordian
- fixed spelling error 'ammount'
20210214: added to summary re: disodium guanylate
2020-MAR-16: added note about MSG Symptoms Complex to "summary"
2018-APR-27:
- talking to emichrandy ~14 days ago and he mentioned an "msg free certification" that would be proposed to restaurants, etc along the lines of a "gmo free" label on various produce
2018-MAR-19:
- "There are two common forms of glutamic acid, L-glutamic acid and D-glutamic acid. L-glutamic acid found in protein is referred to as 'bound' or 'protein bound' glutamic acid. In real, natural foods amino acids are rarely free. Rather, they are linked or bound in long chains to other amino acids in peptides or proteins. D-glutamic acid 'outside of protein' or 'free glutamic acid' is artificially and chemically produced outside of the body. This is what is known as monosodium glutamate or MSG." -- from Glutamic Acid - It Is Not MSG or Monosodium Glutamate
2018-MAR-11:
- updated goals
- each QSR is "independently owned and operated". thinking of a shop chain which previously sponsored a world champion swimmer where an owner can chose cold cuts that are profitable. regs should be updated and enforced such that use of MSG is disclosed clearly.
- if a QSR is going to cut corners it should be made clear.
2018-FEB-26:
- I feel that solving the health crisis in the united states with a very simple diet change should "make up for my sins" at least a "little bit".
- A²Ian is to me as glenn greewald is to TEOS.PATHNOTFOUND
- call w A²Ian
  - practice the pitch
  - told him about the chemistry involved — breaks down into "sodium" and "glutamic acid".
  - how much glutamic acid is Bad™
  - how long does it stay in the body?
  - talking to an md about "msg" normally gets a chuckle. talking to an md about too much glutamic acid is a different matter
  - a blood test should be available to check for glutamic acid.
  - does the sodium in MSG count towards sodium intake? <evil grin>
  - I do not delete info which turns out to be wrong— instead I use 'strike'. preserve project history
  - glutamate is glutamic acid plus a "stabilizer"; in the case of MSG, that is sodium. Na is the "flavor enhancer".
  - the question is how many glutamate storms have I endured today?
2018-FEB-25:
- diabetes
- migraine
- rheumatoid arthritis
- multiple sclerosis
- supposing MSG breaks down into Na and "glutamic acid". the problem becomes what to do about a glutamic acid overdose. assume MSG breaks down readilly with heat
- checked subway "nutrition guide", and all references to MSG or it's hidden names have been removed. big shock. subway menu nutrition FAQs has a question about MSG, but they deny any use of it "except what occurs in nature". nonsense because each franchisee is free to pick their incredients.
- a steakhouse which serves a "loaded baked potato" including "bacon bits" should disclose at the time of order that they use MSG and where. no exceptions. disclosure!
- checked chik-fil-a nutrition guide by waiting minutes for their PDF to render. they do not have a column for "MSG". IMHO, all of their "products" are suspect.
- each sub shop is "independently owned and operated" (as are many QSRs). I once had faith that subway would not stoop to using MSG but they do in at least their cold cuts and most likely sauces, and they do not tell their customers directly.
2018-FEB-22:
- aaron advised that they use glutamic acid during certain surgeries when saline is not appropriate.
- "glutamic acid" as "neurotransmitter"?
- supposing that MSG breaks down into "sodium" and "free glutamic acid".
- supposing that certain lifestyles (ANSNOC, college student) have a lot of MSG in the diet.
- too much glutamic acid causes 'random' symptoms like "diabetes", "ms", "migraines", or "allergy symptoms" (antihistamine is part of immune system)
2018-FEB-19:
- what does it mean to have too much glutamic acid in the body? what happens? how long does it take to flush the excess out?
2018-JAN-26:
- diabetes is when the pancreas is not functioning properly
- what is going wrong when a migraine (sensitive to light and sound) happens?
- cancer is when a mutated cell spreads. does the immune system normally handle this situation?
- ms is an auto-imune disease which attacks the nervous system (citation needed)
- my problem is not that MSG is being used, rather that it is being used often in secret by quick service and family dining restaurants everywhere.
2018-JAN-20:
- added link to "The safety evaluation of monosodium glutamate." on nih.gov to 'TEOS.PATHNOTFOUND' sig on teos. researchers were not able to find a link to MSG and "chinese restaurant syndrome". they appeared to be looking for specific neurological effects. the long-term affects of MSG were not studied.
2018-JAN-18:
- white blood cell count (WBC) blood test to test strength of immune system. flobotomist to draw blood, lab to process test, md to interpret results.
- planned call with ian to talk about what I've learned about the chemistry of MSG next week
- does the sodium in MSG count towards daily intake ?
- what would happen with a diet high in sodium *and* MSG?
- has HIV been known to "come and go"?
- what is the generally considered safe amount of free glutamic acid in the body?
- how long does an excess of free glutamic acid hang around? for example, if I use a ramen noodles seasoning packet (which discloses MSG on the label) a half hour before my shift at the NOC, and then order in Shawarma for supper a couple of hours later, does that count towards what the gov't considers a safe amount of MSG?
2018-JAN-16:
- is genetics a factor in MSG-related symptoms?
- HIV is a virus that attacks the T-Cells, a vital component of the immune system.
- rhumatoid arthritis, MS - auto immune --- immune system goes wacky.
- excitoxin - toxic to cells
- "There are two common forms of glutamic acid, L-glutamic acid and D-glutamic acid. L-glutamic acid found in protein is referred to as 'bound' or 'protein bound' glutamic acid. In real, natural foods amino acids are rarely free. Rather, they are linked or bound in long chains to other amino acids in peptides or proteins. D-glutamic acid 'outside of protein' or 'free glutamic acid' is artificially and chemically produced outside of the body. This is what is known as monosodium glutamate or MSG." -- from Glutamic Acid - It Is Not MSG or Monosodium Glutamate
- "In humans [glutamic acid] is a non-essential amino acid, i.e., the body is capable of producing its own glutamic acid, and is not dependent upon getting glutamic acid from ingested food. Glutamate is glutamic acid to which a mineral ion has been attached. (Researchers call this mineral ion a "salt".) -- google search for "is glutamate the same as glutamic acid"
- HIV vacine via transfusion(!)
2018-JAN-13:
- "glutamate" is another name for "glutamic acid". glutamic acid occurs naturally in food. too much of it is toxic.
- MSG is "glutamate" plus one "sodium" as a "stabilizer", which to me means it does not break down easily
- some QSRs are independently owned franchises. that means that if a store changes ownership, they are free to change the brand of cold cuts they use, or change the recipe in various sauces to those which use MSG as a "flavor enhancer" (salt) and "profit intensifier".
2018-JAN-08: if the MSG does not break down into "sodium" and "glutamate" (aka "glutamic acid"), then it will be possible to detect.
2018-JAN-05: the previous entry makes sense if MSG breaks down when exposed to heat. given that the wikipedia article on MSG contains a list of identifiers for MSG, it must be possible to detect it.
2018-JAN-03:
- the problem is not detecting MSG, the problem is detecting the source of the "sodium" and the "glutamic acid" which occurs naturally in just about everything.
- glutamic acid occurs naturally. to make glutamate, a stablizer is needed. in MSG, this means "sodium".
2017-DEC-13:
- fixed typo "chemically similar"
- neu·ro·tox·in - a poison that acts on the nervous system. -- google definition
- glutamic acid occurs in all foods. the difference is that it is not normally found in a "free" state as in MSG. maybe the immune system is not set up to handle it, so it acts as a toxin.
2017-NOV-29:
- checked subway.com, and they have removed all traces of "msg" from their nutrition guide. I also updated the link to the nutrition guide.
- chick-fil-a still has several blank pages in their "pdf nutrition guide".
- added 'changelog.tmpl' back to index page of site
2017-NOV-14: talked to ian regarding this project and added him to 'contributors' blurb.
2017-JAN-23: "Instant noodles also contain high levels of monosodium glutamate, an excitotoxin that can cause damage or death to nerve cells by over-stimulating them. Damaged nerve cells are a factor in the development of debilitating neurological conditions like Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and ALS." -- opposingviews.com
2016-DEC-25:
- is msg a neurotoxin?
- if MSG is determined to be Evil, what is stopping food manufacturers from being sneaky and making a chemically very similar product and thus dodge the FDA?
2016-DEC-21:
- how does MSG suppress the immune system (assuming it does)? (ty KG)
- does eliminating gluten from the diet universally eliminate MSG? ("ottis")
- MSG in "KFC Green Beans" (see KFC nutrition guide, filter for MSG)
- restaurants are not required to disclose recipe info because it is a Trade Secret. this is different than grocery items which are regulated by the FDA
- does MSG accumulate? if so, for how long before flushed?
- is MSG soluable?
- not many people are diagnosed w CRS. most times (imo), they are diagnosed with things like diabetes, MS, etc which are much more serious
- glutamate occurs naturally in a few different places. MSG is manufactured. there is a difference.
- MSG has been shown to be a neurotoxin (google msg neurotoxin)
- maybe "MSG does not quickly break down" is the real problem here
2016-DEC-19: in-depth discussion via phone regarding this project w dad including the revelation that there is an amount of MSG that the gov considers "safe"
2016-DEC-18: dad contributed "first job is to find a statistically significant sample of people diagnosed with CFS" and, when I gave him a link to this page, a firm "I will get back to you... don't get your hopes up" when I proposed that MSG supresses the immune system.
2016-DEC-07: "Glutamate" naturally occurs in the body which might explain why the immune system has a hard time dealing with the chemically similar "MSG"
2016-SEP-12: added "randy h" to list of contributors
2016-AUG-01: updated project goals
2016-JUL-06: updated goals to include testing for quantity of MSG, since gov't has guidelines about how much is "safe"
2016-MAR-14: updated keywords and title for this site; updated project goals; added note about 'subway' to the list of nutrition guides
2016-FEB-12: started petition on whitehouse.gov and shared to fb
2016-JAN-21: sent 2nd email to emich.edu chemistry dept contact. fixed "health links" page section.
2016-JAN-13: sent feedback using webform to POTUS asking him to have a look at this site.
2015-DEC-??: email problems fixed without reason-for-outage from the provider. mentioning IPv6 seemed to help them resolve my issues, but not until several emails related to this project had bounced.
2015-DEC-11: sent email to chemistry !at! furman dot edu asking about use of MS
2015-DEC-12: sent email to dsnyder *at* emich. edu (chemistry dept co-op contact)
2015-NOV-25: within the last 7 days I emailed the address in charge of booking use of the "mass spectrometer" at umich. the mail bounced, but I made progress in the effort.
University Mass Spectrometer Facilities (most links dead)
MSG has a CAS Registration Number of 142-47-2, a ChemSpider number of 76943, an ECN of 205-538-1. These codes can be used by lab equipment to detect monosodium glutamate (MSG). Hidden ingredients have their own codes.
because MSG contains sodium (Na), it can be used as a preservative
Mono-sodium Glutamate (which is Manufactured Free Glutamic Acid and does not occur in nature) is a man-made ingredient used to alter our perception of taste in thousands of grocery store products. It tricks our brains into perceiving a more enhanced taste than actually exists in processed foods. More and more consumers are onto this deception and are looking to steer clear of Monosodium Glutamate and the other products that contain Manufactured Glutamic Acid. -- from food identity theft
Phil: "as far as I know, MSG puts the immune system on guard". Me: "ya, just like pearl harbor" Phil: oooooh
flavour enhancers page on wikipedia
some of the supposedly hidden names for monosodium glutamate (MSG) used to get a "clean label (German)" (English version by Google Translate). this list needs independent verification. list copy-pasted without explicit permission from Hidden Monosodium Glutamate
- Autolyzed Plant Protein
- Yeast Extract
- Calcium Caseinate
- Glutamate
- Hydrolyzed Plant Protein (HPP)
- Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein (HVP)
- Maltodextrin
- Monopotassium Glutamate
- Sodium Caseinate
- Soy Protein Concentrate
- Textured Protein
- Yeast Food or Nutrient
Don't make the mistake of thinking that it is okay to eat this stuff occasionally, because these ingredients can stick around in your body for a long time, leach nutrients from your system, and can make you really sick. As put by my pal Kristen Michaelis at FoodRenegade.com, “Not only is MSG not a traditional food, not only are many people immediately sensitive to it, but it can also interrupt the hormonal and biological development of children! Lest you think this is all fanciful, it’s important to remember that a number of studies have found that the effects of MSG can occur cumulatively over time with subsequent exposure. -- food babe
MSG does not make you sick directly; it lowers your body's ability to fight infection and disease.
Monosodium Glutamate exacerbates symptoms
Some people are on a restricted diet where they need to count every miligram of sodium. Sodium is one of the two components (the other being glutamate) in monosodium glutamate (thanks pmc).
"In 1908, Japanese chemist Kikunae Ikeda isolated and patented a manufacturing process for monosodium glutamate, more commonly known to English-speakers of the 21st century as the often-maligned MSG." -- from “Umami” Was Coined by the Inventor of MSG to Describe Its Taste
In You Only Live Twice James Bond "claims he's trying to steal the secret to making MSG" -- James Bond Declassified: File #5 - 'You Only Live Twice' rewrites Fleming completely
"MSG plays a role often in secret in products on almost every shelf of the supermarket." -- If MSG is so bad for you, why doesn't everyone in Asia have a headache? (the guardian)
If MSG is "safe", why does it have so many hidden names (like Disodium guanylate and Disodium-Inosinate amongst many others, see MSG Lurks As A Slow Poison In Common Food Items Without Your Knowledge for more) or is left off of the ingredient list entirely in clear violation of FDA regulations?
Why is it so difficult to find out which QSRs use MSG? The crews don't seem to know what MSG is much less if their employer uses it. most often they open a can of pizza sauce or a package of cold cuts and are not paid enough to care what is in it. also the packages rarely list ingredients so even if they do care, they do not know for sure.
in very small doses, the affect MSG has on the immune system is nothing much to worry about. the problem starts when just about everything in the typical American diet contains the stuff and the effects are cumulative. it adds up quick.
this project is worthy of a healthy grant. there is too much anecdotal evidence.
morally speaking I will no longer spend money on food items that I know contain MSG. I do not want to allow anyone to be poisoned on my dime.

achilles - a study of flavor enhancers

zoid technologies

project achilles

1997 or 1998 (noc): constipation, sensitive to light and sound on a nightly basis (whenever I was working, and especially a couple of hours after ordering in) culminating in 4-5 hours where I was "passed out". I would wake up embarrassed re: being unproductive, refreshed and symptom free.
2008: after my sister made an appt with a doc for my symptoms, I had a big project so I went to Subway for several days in a row. constipation cleared up, sinus/cold/bad skin breakouts started to heal. at that point I realized that the problem was with my food. also around this time I learned that MSG is used "off label".
july 5, 2014: experienced bad sinus pain and pressure along with tons of nose blowing (severe alergies?). spent quite a bit of money on pills from the local drugstore to get symptoms under control long enough that I could keep a doctor's appointment. also learned that because I was a "new patient", they could not see me until 6 weeks later (september, 2014).
late july, 2014: went to minute clinic. prescribed mucinex-d, antibiotic, encouraged to take tylenol sinus; "CFS" (Chinese Food Syndrome) noted on my medical record.
august, 2014: found that the trouble was with the "pace salsa" that I had purchased at Walmart and that I had been eating on for at least 6 weeks.
august, 23, 2014: "turkey chili" mom gave me caused more constipation, sinus trouble, etc
august, 2014: published achilles website
october, 2023: updated 'goals' section

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project achilles

achilles

a study of flavor enhancers and food additives

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2024-09-20

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project achilles

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