project achilles studies the affect of MSG
and derivatives on the human body.
warning
For medical or nutritional advice, do not rely only on this
site. Please consult a dietician or health care professional instead.
goals
gather a statistically significant group with a Chinese Food Syndrome
or MSG Symptom Complex diagnosis(very difficult considering HIPAA
in the U.S.).. This can work wrt privacy if patients
voluntarily enter their data into an information system, and if that data is
subsequently scrubbed of Personally Identifiable Information (PII).
lobby to improve labeling law enforcement for QSRs (Fast Food), packaged foods (ref. hot dogs, cold cuts, frozen pizza, etc)
produce and distribute a field test kit which tests for the quantity of MSG (monosodium glutamate) in a wet or dry sample.
build, operate, and maintain an information system that tracks various processed food products
regulated by the FDA, their UPC labels if available, and whether or not the item has MSG in it (determined via lab testing
and personal opinion) and if MSG is on the label or, in the case of a QSR
or family dining restaurant (chain or single), clearly on their nutrition guide and/or menu.
partner with universities and enterprise to test samples and submit results to the planned information system
earn a healthy long term grant (10+ years)
lobby to change regulations such that restaurants (especially QSRs) must
clearly disclose use and quantity of MSG and in what menu items so the consumer can make an
informed choice. the new regs must be strictly enforced with regular field
testing using "secret shoppers" (ref: consumer reports) and effective
penalties for non-compliance, not limited to "internet shaming"
added msg should be shown as a quantity alongside sodium, sugar, etc
maintain a list of hidden names for MSG, including disodium
glutayate (first hand: 202008, Innovasion and 20210213 "combos stuffed
snacks" pepperoni pizza baked cracker)
summary
I will grudgingly accept MSG occuring naturally.
What I need to know is how much MSG is being added to my food, so I can make
sure I consume a safe level.
any restaurant is going to see MSG as one way to lower food cost
no chef worth their jacket would use MSG in their kitchen(s)
sodium from table salt plus sodium from MSG = ?
"Glutamate excitotoxicity (sometimes called a glutamatergic storm) refers to the damage to nerve cells caused by excessive stimulation of NMDA and AMPA receptors by glutamate.” Jul 2, 2018
source: What is Glutamate? -- too much glutamate
"NMDA is an unfortunate acronym for N-methyl-D-aspartate, and this amino acid derivative is very similar to glutamate. Now glutamate is the excitatory neurotransmitter found in most synapses of the central nervous system, and pharmacologists made this analogue called NMDA to activate a sub-type of glutamate
receptors." -- source: what is NMDA
"AMPA (α-amino-3-hydroxy-5-methyl-4-isoxazolepropionic acid) is a compound that is a specific
agonist for the AMPA receptor, where it mimics the effects of the neurotransmitter glutamate. ... AMPA generates fast excitatory postsynaptic potentials
(EPSP)." -- source wikipedia
AMPA
"In excitotoxicity, nerve cells suffer damage or death when the levels of otherwise necessary and safe neurotransmitters such as
glutamate,..." -- source wikipedia Excitotoxicity
"An excitatory postsynaptic potential (EPSP) is the change in membrane voltage of a postsynaptic cell following the influx of positively charged ions into a cell (typically Na+) as a result of the activation of ligand-sensitive
channels." -- source Encyclopedia of Psychopharmacology (2010)
"Chronic inflammation of the pancreas can damage the cells that produce insulin which can lead to diabetes. Pancreatitis and type 2 diabetes share some of the same risk factors. Observational studies indicate that people with type 2 diabetes may have a two- to threefold increased risk of acute
pancreatitis." -- source The Connection Between Diabetes and Your Pancreas
"It refers to a group of symptoms some people experience after eating food from a Chinese restaurant. Today, it's known as MSG symptom complex. These symptoms often include headache, skin flushing, and sweating. A food additive called monosodium glutamate (MSG) is often blamed for these
symptoms." (2012) -- source Chinese
Restaurant Complex and MSG Symptom Complex
KFC® Nutrition Guide (PDF) and (more importantly) food allergies and
sensitivities update 2020-mar-16: as of today, kfc does not show any of their products containing msg. if that is really the case, they will have to somehow prove it to me. if they are lying, that is supposed to be illegal.
subway nutrition guide. they do not list MSG directly, but instead have a column for "autolyzed yeast" and "hydrolyzed protein" which are two hidden names for monosodium glutamate
(MSG). each franchise is able to pick their cold-cuts. often, those
cold-cuts use MSG to keep the food-cost low (profit higher). also, do not go near their
sauces or their "personal pizza" which uses MSG.
was unable to find a to-the-point nutrition guide for chick-fil-a. their allergens
PDF was 18megabytes of empty pages on my fedora workstation. as a result, highly
suspect chick-fil-a of using MSG
update: 2017-nov-19: only 5 pages of blank pdf
update: 2018-May-26: nutrition guide does not load.
update 2020-mar-16: allergen information yields an error about not being able to find a layout template. they appear to have replaced their nutrition guide with a blog.
2020-MAR-16: added note about MSG Symptoms Complex to "summary"
2018-APR-27:
talking to emichrandy ~14 days ago and he mentioned an "msg free
certification" that would be proposed to restaurants, etc along the lines
of a "gmo free" label on various produce
2018-MAR-19:
"There are two common forms of glutamic acid, L-glutamic acid and D-glutamic acid. L-glutamic acid found in protein is referred to as 'bound' or 'protein bound' glutamic acid. In real, natural foods amino acids are rarely free. Rather, they are linked or bound in long chains to other amino acids in peptides or proteins. D-glutamic acid 'outside of protein' or 'free glutamic acid' is artificially and chemically produced outside of the body. This is what is known as monosodium glutamate or
MSG." -- from
Glutamic Acid - It Is Not MSG or Monosodium Glutamate
2018-MAR-11:
updated goals
each QSR is "independently owned and operated". thinking of a shop
chain which previously sponsored a gold metal swimmer (subway®) where
an owner can chose cold cuts that are profitable. regs should be updated and
enforced such that use of MSG is disclosed clearly.
if a QSR is going to cut corners it should be made clear.
2018-FEB-26:
I feel that solving the health crisis in the united states with a very simple diet change should "make up for
my sins" at least a "little bit".
supposing MSG breaks down into Na and "glutamic acid". the problem
becomes what to do about a glutamic acid overdose. assume MSG breaks down
readilly with heat
checked subway "nutrition guide", and all references to MSG or
it's hidden names have been removed. big shock. subway
menu nutrition FAQs has a question about MSG, but they deny any use of
it "except what occurs in nature". bullshit alert.
a steakhouse which serves a "loaded baked potato" including "bacon bits"
should disclose at the time of order that they use MSG and where. no
exceptions. substantial fines and social media pressure if they do not
accurately disclose before being served.
checked chik-fil-a nutrition guide by waiting minutes for their
PDF to render. they do not have a column for "MSG". IMHO, all of their "products"
are suspect.
each subway is "independently owned and operated" (as are many
QSRs). I once had faith that subway would not stoop to using MSG but they
do in at least their cold cuts and most likely sauces, and they do not tell their customers directly. sad.
2018-FEB-22:
aaron advised that they use glutamic acid during certain surgeries
when saline is not appropriate.
"glutamic acid" as "neurotransmitter"?
supposing that MSG breaks down into "sodium" and "free glutamic
acid".
supposing that certain lifestyles (ANSNOC, college student) have a lot of MSG in the
diet.
too much glutamic acid causes 'random' symptoms like "diabetes", "ms", "migraines", or "allergy symptoms" (antihistamine is part of immune system)
2018-FEB-19:
what does it mean to have too much glutamic acid in the body? what
happens? how long does it take to flush the excess out?
2018-JAN-26:
diabetes is when the pancreas is not functioning properly
what is going wrong when a migraine (sensitive to light and sound)
happens?
cancer is when a mutated cell spreads. does the immune system normally
handle this situation?
ms is an auto-imune disease which attacks the nervous system (citation
needed)
my problem is not that MSG is being used, rather that it is being used
often in secret by quick service and family dining restaurants everywhere.
2018-JAN-20:
added link to "The safety evaluation of monosodium
glutamate." on nih.gov to 'achilles
' sig on teos. researchers were
not able to find a link to MSG and "chinese restaurant syndrome". they
appeared to be looking for specific neurological effects. the long-term
affects of MSG were not studied.
2018-JAN-18:
white blood cell count (WBC) blood test to test strength of immune
system. flobotomist to draw blood, lab to process test, md to interpret results.
planned call with ian to talk about what I've learned about the
chemistry of MSG next week
does the sodium in MSG count towards daily intake ?
what would happen with a diet high in sodium *and* MSG?
has HIV been known to "come and go"?
what is the generally considered safe amount of free glutamic acid in
the body?
how long does an excess of free glutamic acid hang around? for example,
if I use a ramen noodles seasoning packet (which discloses MSG on the
label) a half hour before my shift at the NOC, and
then order in Shawarma for supper
a couple of hours later, does that count
towards what the gov't considers
a safe amount of MSG?
2018-JAN-16:
is genetics a factor in MSG-related symptoms?
HIV is a virus that attacks the T-Cells, a vital component of the immune
system.
rhumatoid arthritis, MS - auto immune --- immune system goes wacky.
excitoxin - toxic to cells
"There are two common forms of glutamic acid, L-glutamic acid and D-glutamic acid. L-glutamic acid found in protein is referred to as 'bound' or 'protein bound' glutamic acid. In real, natural foods amino acids are rarely free. Rather, they are linked or bound in long chains to other amino acids in peptides or proteins. D-glutamic acid 'outside of protein' or 'free glutamic acid' is artificially and chemically produced outside of the body. This is what is known as monosodium glutamate or
MSG." -- from Glutamic Acid - It Is Not MSG or Monosodium
Glutamate
"In humans [glutamic acid] is a non-essential amino acid, i.e., the body is capable of producing its own glutamic acid, and is not dependent upon getting glutamic acid from ingested food. Glutamate is glutamic acid to which a mineral ion has been attached. (Researchers call this mineral ion a
"salt".) -- google
search for "is glutamate the same as glutamic acid"
HIV vacine via transfusion(!)
2018-JAN-13:
"glutamate" is another name for "glutamic
acid". glutamic acid occurs
naturally in food. too much of it is toxic.
MSG is "glutamate" plus one "sodium" as a "stabilizer", which to me
means it does not break down easily
some QSRs are independently owned franchises. that means that if a
store changes ownership, they are free to change the brand of cold cuts
they use, or change the recipe in various sauces to those which use
MSG as a "flavor enhancer" (salt) and "profit intensifier".
2018-JAN-08: if the MSG does not break down into "sodium" and
"glutamate" (aka "glutamic acid"), then it will be possible to detect.
2018-JAN-05: the previous entry makes sense if MSG breaks down when
exposed to heat. given that the wikipedia article on
MSG contains a list of identifiers for MSG, it must be possible to
detect it.
2018-JAN-03:
the problem is not detecting MSG, the problem is detecting the
source of the "sodium" and the "glutamic acid" which occurs naturally in
just about everything.
glutamic acid occurs naturally. to make glutamate, a stablizer is
needed. in MSG, this means "sodium".
2017-DEC-13:
fixed typo "chemically similar"
neu·ro·tox·in - a poison that acts on the nervous system. -- google
definition
glutamic acid occurs in all foods. the difference is that it is
not normally found in a "free" state as in MSG. maybe the immune system is
not set up to handle it, so it acts as a toxin.
2017-NOV-29:
checked subway.com, and they have removed all traces of "msg" from their nutrition guide. I also updated the link to the nutrition guide.
chick-fil-a still has several blank pages in their "pdf nutrition
guide".
added 'changelog.tmpl' back to index page of site
2017-NOV-14: talked to ian regarding this project and added him to
'contributors' blurb.
2017-JAN-23: "Instant noodles also contain high levels of monosodium
glutamate, an excitotoxin that can cause damage or death to nerve cells by
over-stimulating them. Damaged nerve cells are a factor in the development
of debilitating neurological conditions like Alzheimer's disease,
Parkinson's disease and ALS." -- opposingviews.com
if MSG is determined to be Evil, what is stopping food manufacturers
from being sneaky and making a chemically very similar product and thus
dodge the FDA?
2016-DEC-21:
how does MSG suppress the immune system (assuming it does)? (ty KG)
does eliminating gluten from the diet universally eliminate MSG? ("ottis")
MSG in "KFC Green Beans" (see KFC nutrition guide, filter for MSG)
restaurants are not required to disclose recipe info because it is a
Trade Secret. this is different than grocery items which are
regulated by the FDA
does MSG accumulate? if so, for how long before flushed?
is MSG soluable?
not many people are diagnosed w CRS. most times (imo), they are diagnosed
with things like diabetes, MS, etc which are much more serious
glutamate occurs naturally in a few different places. MSG is manufactured.
there is a difference.
maybe "MSG does not quickly break down" is the real problem here
2016-DEC-19: in-depth discussion via phone regarding this project w dad
including the revelation that there is an amount of MSG that the gov
considers "safe"
2016-DEC-18: dad contributed "first job is to find a statistically
significant sample of people diagnosed with CFS" and, when I gave him a link
to this page, a firm "I will get back to you... don't get your hopes up" when
I proposed that MSG supresses the immune system.
2016-DEC-07: "Glutamate" naturally occurs in the body which might explain why the immune system has a hard time dealing with the
chemically
similar "MSG"
2016-SEP-12: added "randy h" to list of contributors
2016-AUG-01: updated project goals
2016-JUL-06: updated goals to include testing for quantity of MSG, since gov't has guidelines about how much is "safe"
2016-MAR-14: updated keywords and title for this site; updated project goals; added note about 'subway' to the list of nutrition guides
2016-FEB-12: started petition on whitehouse.gov and shared to fb
2016-JAN-21: sent 2nd email to emich.edu chemistry dept contact. fixed "health links" page section.
2016-JAN-13: sent feedback using webform to POTUS asking him to have a look at this site.
2015-DEC-??: email problems fixed without reason-for-outage from the provider. mentioning IPv6 seemed to help them resolve my issues, but not until several emails related to this project had bounced.
2015-DEC-11: sent email to chemistry !at! furman dot edu asking about use of MS
2015-DEC-12: sent email to dsnyder *at* emich. edu (chemistry dept co-op contact)
2015-NOV-25: within the last 7 days I emailed the address in charge of booking use of the "mass spectrometer" at umich. the mail bounced, but I made progress in the effort.
because MSG contains sodium (Na), it can be used as a preservative
Mono-sodium Glutamate (which is Manufactured Free Glutamic Acid and
does not occur in nature) is a
man-made ingredient used to alter our perception of taste in thousands of
grocery store products. It tricks our brains into perceiving a more
enhanced taste than actually exists in processed foods. More and more
consumers are onto this deception and are looking to steer clear of
Monosodium Glutamate and the other products that contain Manufactured
Glutamic Acid. -- from food identity
theft
Phil: "as far as I know, MSG puts the immune system on guard". Me: "ya, just like pearl harbor"
Phil: oooooh
Don't make the mistake of thinking that it is okay to eat this stuff
occasionally, because these ingredients can stick around in your body for a
long time, leach nutrients from your system, and can make you really sick.
As put by my pal Kristen Michaelis at FoodRenegade.com, “Not only is MSG not
a traditional food, not only are many people immediately sensitive to it,
but it can also interrupt the hormonal and biological development of
children! Lest you think this is all fanciful, it’s important to remember
that a number of studies have found that the effects of MSG can occur
cumulatively over time with subsequent exposure. -- food
babe
MSG does not make you sick directly; it lowers your body's ability to fight infection and disease.
Some people are on a restricted diet where they need to count every miligram of sodium. Sodium is one of the two components (the other being glutamate) in monosodium glutamate (thanks pmc).
"In 1908, Japanese chemist Kikunae Ikeda isolated and patented a manufacturing process for monosodium glutamate, more commonly known to English-speakers of the 21st century as the often-maligned MSG." -- from “Umami” Was Coined by the Inventor of MSG to Describe Its Taste
Why is it so difficult to find out which QSRs use MSG? The crews don't seem to know what MSG is much less if their employer uses it. most often they open a can of pizza sauce or a package of cold cuts and are not paid enough to care what is in it. also the packages rarely list ingredients so even if they do care, they do not know for sure.
in very small doses, the affect MSG has on the immune system is nothing much to worry about. the problem starts when just about everything in the typical American diet contains the stuff and the effects are cumulative. it adds up quick.
this project is worthy of a healthy grant. there is too much anecdotal evidence.
morally speaking I will no longer spend money on food items that I know contain MSG. I do not want to allow anyone to be poisoned on my dime.
posted on 2020-Apr-21 5:35PM EDT (Tue) (11 months ago)
by jonez approved by jonez on 2020-Apr-21 5:35PM EDT (Tue) (11 months ago)
"""The FASEB report identified some short-term, transient, and generally mild symptoms, such as headache, numbness, flushing, tingling, palpitations, and drowsiness that may occur in some sensitive individuals who consume 3 grams or more of MSG without food. However, a typical serving of a food with added MSG contains less than 0.5 grams of MSG"""
posted on 2018-Sep-29 1:26AM EDT (Sat) (2 years ago)
by jonez approved by jonez on 2018-Sep-29 1:26AM EDT (Sat) (2 years ago)
"MSG is technically a natural substance, so it can be added to "all natural" and "organic" foods." is nonsense (see my other links in this sig). other than that, it's a good post.
posted on 2018-Apr-28 6:14PM EDT (Sat) (3 years ago)
by jonez approved by jonez on 2018-Apr-28 6:14PM EDT (Sat) (3 years ago)
MSG is salt (sodium) and glutamate. too much free glutamic acid is a problem. adding salt to food to enhance flavor is [b]not[/b] the magic this article would have us believe.
posted on 2018-Jan-13 11:45PM EST (Sat) (3 years ago)
by jonez approved by jonez on 2018-Feb-14 11:08PM EST (Wed) (3 years ago)
"Glutamic acid is a nonessential amino acid. It can be produced in your body from other amino acids, so you do not need to get it from foods in order to be healthy. Glutamates are salts of glutamic acid."
posted on 2012-Apr-08 12:31PM EDT (Sun) (9 years ago)
by jonez approved by jonez on 2015-Jul-28 12:19AM EDT (Tue) (6 years ago)
Boat Loads of MSG in McDonalds food. Are You Lovin It? | MSG Exposed (Monosodium Glutamate) [BROKEN]
posted on 2012-Apr-10 3:02PM EDT (Tue) (9 years ago)
by jonez approved by jonez on 2015-Jul-28 12:19AM EDT (Tue) (6 years ago)
marked broken by a. nonymous on 2014-Aug-18 12:16PM EDT (Mon) (7 years ago)